Nice to know we'll be paying for his next few years of staying at a ultra-minimum security resort somewhere nice. At least until Jan 19 2009, when Bush pardons him.
(either that or let the former Enron employees who now have no pensions or retirement funds vote on where he goes. I bet it would be a nice Federal Pound-Me-Up-The-Ass prison in the Aelutian Islands somewhere)
To quote from the Godfather: "Now who's being naive, Kay?"
Where else would Lay go but to a cushy white collar resort somewhere? And confiscate his wealth? There may be civil class-action lawsuits to go after some of it, but that's just plain not likely to happen.
Medium security prison. Why wouldn't part of the penalty for stealing money be confiscation of the money? If I rob a bank, do they send me to prison and let me keep what I stole?
You're not friends with the President. But you're right - depending on the exact nature of the charges (wire fraud and securities fraud) he may have to give back some amount of money, but who is to say what amount exactly is due to the fraud and what was actually earned?
Of course, he'll appeal forever anyway. And he wasn't even ordered to go direct to prison or to home confinement. So he gets to go home and pretty much do whatever he wants (although he had to give up his passport). He won't even be sentenced until September.
People like Ken Lay don't go to hardcore prison, and aren't ruined by these kinds of verdicts. I'll be very surprised if he ever does a day of time.
(the quote is when Michael Corleone's girlfriend is complaining about how nasty his family is. Here's the exchange: Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator. Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed. Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay? )
If only we had some sort of system based on some rules that could decide how much is owed by someone who committed fraud. We could call them something like "courts" or "judges". They do thinks like this all the time with corporations.
"People like Ken Lay don't go to hardcore prison, and aren't ruined by these kinds of verdicts. I'll be very surprised if he ever does a day of time." Michael Milkin? In prison 10 years, life ruined.
I have hope that the system will deal fairly with Lay and send him to a pound-him-up-the-ass facility. But it is a certainty that money is a really nice cushion. A guy on the T.O. rez got 13 years for embezzling $200K. A year for each charge, since tribes can't sentence more than a year per charge. My understanding is that in the federal system, a sentence like that means someone embezzled ten times that amount.
It'll be interesting to see what he is actually sentenced to, but here's to the system working despite a defendant having money!
I suppose that depends on how you define "Life Ruined." He was diagnosed with cancer in January,1993...same month he was released. 13 years later, he's still alive and working in the financial field.
He's got his own website that promotes...well, HIM. He started a supposedly non-profit (heh) think-tank (the miliken institute), started a charity (fastercures.org), continued funding a school and another charity he started when he was RICHER and sitting in on global conferences. That's not including the cable channel he almost started or the private business like the Cardean Learning group he partly own or invests in.
And he didn't do 10 years, either. To wit: "However, Milken served only about 22 months (from March 1991 until January 1993) before being released. Upon his release, it is estimated he still had over one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000 USD) of his personal fortune intact even after paying $900 million dollars ($900,000,000 USD) in fines and settlements. He is now worth close to three billion dollars ($3,000,000,000 USD) and has long since entered other business ventures."
I mean, if that's what his life is when it's ruined, I marvel at what it would have been like otherwise.
Robbing a bank is damn sight different crime (both in execution and motivation) from a white-collar accounting crime. The impact may actually be far worse from the latter, but our laws don't recognize a violent theft as less damaging than a crime of writing a 0 instead of 1 in an excel spreadsheet.
Was talking to my boss today, who related that most of the Club Feds were shut down about fifteen years or so ago, so that should Lay ever see the inside of one the prisons, it won't be a stay at what was essentially a Best Western with bars on the window. The following is a link to an article discussing such things.
"I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 05:35 pm (UTC)Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 05:40 pm (UTC)Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 05:46 pm (UTC)(either that or let the former Enron employees who now have no pensions or retirement funds vote on where he goes. I bet it would be a nice Federal Pound-Me-Up-The-Ass prison in the Aelutian Islands somewhere)
Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 05:56 pm (UTC)And why not confiscate all his wealth and use it to fund the pensions?
Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 06:09 pm (UTC)Where else would Lay go but to a cushy white collar resort somewhere? And confiscate his wealth? There may be civil class-action lawsuits to go after some of it, but that's just plain not likely to happen.
Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-25 06:24 pm (UTC)Medium security prison.
Why wouldn't part of the penalty for stealing money be confiscation of the money? If I rob a bank, do they send me to prison and let me keep what I stole?
We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-25 06:34 pm (UTC)Of course, he'll appeal forever anyway. And he wasn't even ordered to go direct to prison or to home confinement. So he gets to go home and pretty much do whatever he wants (although he had to give up his passport). He won't even be sentenced until September.
People like Ken Lay don't go to hardcore prison, and aren't ruined by these kinds of verdicts. I'll be very surprised if he ever does a day of time.
(the quote is when Michael Corleone's girlfriend is complaining about how nasty his family is. Here's the exchange:
Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay? )
Re: We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-25 06:41 pm (UTC)"People like Ken Lay don't go to hardcore prison, and aren't ruined by these kinds of verdicts. I'll be very surprised if he ever does a day of time."
Michael Milkin? In prison 10 years, life ruined.
Re: We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-25 07:23 pm (UTC)They'll take the $, in fact they already have. And anything left will go to the lawyers.
Sentencing and Money
Date: 2006-05-26 02:05 am (UTC)It'll be interesting to see what he is actually sentenced to, but here's to the system working despite a defendant having money!
Re: Sentencing and Money
Date: 2006-05-26 12:59 pm (UTC)Re: We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-26 12:39 pm (UTC)He's got his own website that promotes...well, HIM. He started a supposedly non-profit (heh) think-tank (the miliken institute), started a charity (fastercures.org), continued funding a school and another charity he started when he was RICHER and sitting in on global conferences. That's not including the cable channel he almost started or the private business like the Cardean Learning group he partly own or invests in.
And he didn't do 10 years, either. To wit: "However, Milken served only about 22 months (from March 1991 until January 1993) before being released. Upon his release, it is estimated he still had over one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000 USD) of his personal fortune intact even after paying $900 million dollars ($900,000,000 USD) in fines and settlements. He is now worth close to three billion dollars ($3,000,000,000 USD) and has long since entered other business ventures."
I mean, if that's what his life is when it's ruined, I marvel at what it would have been like otherwise.
Re: We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-26 01:04 pm (UTC)Re: We're all making a fortune selling daddy's dope.
Date: 2006-05-25 07:25 pm (UTC)Sitting here in Queens
Eating refried beans
Mommy's on the pills
Baby's go the chills
"I'm No Scar. Dot com."
Date: 2006-05-25 06:36 pm (UTC)Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-26 12:42 pm (UTC)Re: "I'm having the time of my LIFE!"
Date: 2006-05-26 01:03 pm (UTC)The Demise of the Club Fed
Date: 2006-05-27 02:07 am (UTC)http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3898667.html
Re: The Demise of the Club Fed
Date: 2006-05-27 06:51 am (UTC)