They just don't know how to think

[lynxreign]

This morning on NPR there was a story about San Francisco. SF is a "sanctuary city". In other words, they don't automatically send every illegal they come across to the Feds for deportation. There was a protest and counter-protest there yesterday, described in the story teaser as a "clash", despite the protest being peaceful, though loud.

On the one side you had hundreds of people from immigrant's rights groups, on the other you had a dozen "Minutemen". You know about the "Minutemen", the idiots who have taken it upon themselves to "patrol" the border with Mexico.

The underlying cause for this appearance by the Asshats, sorry, the Minutemen, was a crime committed by an illegal immigrant. The immigrant in question is a minor who had already been arrested several times for violent crimes. The then committed a triple murder in a drive-by, using an AK-47. Horrible? Yes. Worthy of prison and/or deportation? Sure. However the underlying cause of this crime was not that he was an immigrant or an illegal immigrant.

It isn't as though no American citizen (of any race you care to choose) has ever committed murder. Surely no legal citizen has ever joined a gang or killed someone with a gun or performed a drive-by. I mean, if it weren't for the illegals, there'd be no gun violence or crime in the USA at all!

Using this crime as a prop for their xenophobic, racist crusade makes about as much sense as blaming the British for shipwrecks. It is a complete disconnect, but since so much of this country is completely irrational, they make the connection and get people to agree with them.

Comments

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

Except that the Minutemen's purpose is anti-illegal-immegration. Their message is "This is what illegal immegrants do to our society." If individual in question were an American citizen, this all would have played out exactly as it has, except the Minutemen wouldn't be there protesting today.

if you know someone is here illegally, you have caught them committing crimes and have identified them as an illegal immigrant, why the hell is the person NOT deported

Define the level of "crimes". The way the policy there is today, if the person is an adult and commits a felony, and they are an illegal immegrant, they are deported. The only reason this person wasn't is because he is a minor. SF is now reviewing that policy, but if a 6 year old kid steals an apple, do you ship him off to his country of origin?

people here illegally shouldn't be here and should be deported

1) And who takes the jobs they're doing? There are more illegal immigrants in this country than there are legal people who are unemployed.

2) Deporting that many people all at once will put a strain on the jobs market and cause inflation.

3) Deporting that many people all at once is a logistical nightmare

4) Deporting that many people all at once would cost a fortune

5) Finding the people to deport them is nigh impossible

The only way you're going to stop people from coming here is to somehow effectively punish the people giving them jobs without destroying the economy.

[editswlonghair.livejournal.com]

"The only way you're going to stop people from coming here is to somehow effectively punish the people giving them jobs"

And therein lies the rub-- as long as there is money to be made by country club Republicans, this shall remain a wedge social issue that will deliberately remain unsolved and exploitable to fire up the base.

If individual in question were an American citizen,

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

I won't argue that were the circumstances different (and there is some dispute about whether the person is here legally or not, so the result might have been the same even under scrutiny) the situation would definitely play out with the same end result, but that isn't the point. The point is that if the person is/was an illegal alien there are ways it could have been handled that would have not resulted in the murders.

And I am completely familiar with arguments you present, you and I have gone back and forth about them before. I still say "It's illegal". :)

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

You can say "It's illegal" all you want.

The point is that if the person is/was an illegal alien there are ways it could have been handled that would have not resulted in the murders.

Sure and if we had better gun control laws or combatted gangs more effectively or had gotten this kid a job or put all brown people into camps or thrown the kid into jail for life on his first offense then the murders wouldn't have happened either.

In what way could you have handled this? Would you have deported a minor? Perhaps to a country he hasn't been to since he was an infant?

Would you have deported a minor

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

Where are the minor's parents? If they are outside the country, that's where he goes. If they are inside the country illegally, they all go. If the parents are here legally but brought him here illegally then their visa status may be at risk and they may end up going ( I am not familiar enough with the rules, but I am guessing their status could be revoked).

Bottom line, there are legal processes to go through for proper entry into the US and to remain here. Difficult? Yes. Nearly impossible for some? Yes. But my expectation is that just as I should follow the laws of another country to gain entry, so should people entering the US follow our laws. Break the law, face the consequences.

Re: Would you have deported a minor

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

If they are inside the country illegally, they all go

Yeah? How are you going to find them?

Bottom line, there are legal processes to go through for proper entry into the US and to remain here

Sure, the wait time is only what, 10 years? And if you have no skills?

And since the immegration policy focuses on skilled laborers, what happens to the companies that are relying on them?

Re: Would you have deported a minor

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

If there simple answers and solutions this would not be a polarizing national debate. :)

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see you admit that it isn't as simple as "But they're illegal".

I'm glad to see you admit that it isn't as simple as "But they're illegal".

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's my simple answer, it just doesn't come with a simple solution. You can have a simple answer such as mine, such as "deport them all", such as "grant them all amnesty", etc..... :)

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

That's not an answer, that's a sound bite.

That's not an answer, that's a sound bite.

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

Hey, if it works for the people who get themselves elected.... :)

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

Ask yourself, do you really want to be associated with those people?

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

But they make the laws!

[maps-or-guitars.livejournal.com]

Only because we let them, which should be a source of enduring shame.

[lynxreign.livejournal.com]

So you want to be like them, but without their one redeeming feature?

[chaoticmoth.livejournal.com]

If I wanted to be involved in changing laws I would want to be associated with the people with the power to do so.

I am your typical lazy american though, so don't want to be involved with changing the laws, I just want them all to magically be in my favor and fit my views. :)