lynxreign | I would like a law

So in my example above, if profits are increased by 1.9 millions dollars/year the person is not eligible for an increase. Yet someone at $1.5 million who works for a competing company with less people at minimum wage who brings in less money, but still over the amount required to bump everyone's salary to a new minimum, is eligible for an increase?

Yep, I see how this economic model will work flawlessly.

Why not? The other company is working with less overhead and generating a greater profit. How is that different from today?

Because you are mandating the extra costs. Today someone could bring in $1.9 million in profit and get an increase because they won't have to pay out $2,000,000 to do so, and leave the company with a bunch of money as profit.

Could, perhaps, but that's not what's happening. Perhaps in a company that size the reaction should be more akin to "$1.9 million? That's the best you can do? You have all these resources and we're paying you that much and all you can pull in is that?"

And again, you're arguing over the fate of a few hundred people who will still be making millions of dollars a year.

And you're calculating with today's economy. In this economy, more people will have more disposable income allowing them to spend more without going into debt. This increases profitability and will allow the CEOs to make more an give raises. A virtuous spiral.

Will it work "flawlessly"? Probably not. Will it work with fewer flaws than the current system? I'd bet on it.

So this is purely an ends justifies the means argument, correct?

No, no more than any other argument. I don't see why the means is so abhorrant. We tax, we regulate, we fine, we imprison, these are all done in the name of a healthy, functioning society. This is no different.

Taxes - Imposes no limitation on what you earn. While you may pay a lot of it back to the government in taxes, you have unconstrained potential.

Regulate - Regulations are part of what got us in the CEO compensation mess to begin with. http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14749943

Fines - We fine for breaking rules, not for paying people.

Imprison - See Fines, with the exception of bribes and such as far as for paying people. :)

My law no more imposes limitations on what you earn than do taxes.

Regulations can be for good or ill, properly composed ones benefit us as a society.

Fines: Where do you think the rules come from?

Imprison, so you agree that we imprison people for certain types of payments? Good. Then extend to this.

My law no more imposes limitations on what you earn than do taxes.

It does because the economy of scale sets in. It gets too expensive to pay everyone else just to pay one. I know you are against big companies, but not all big companies are evil.

Regulations can be for good or ill, properly composed ones benefit us as a society.

True, yet we can't seem to get it right.

Fines: Where do you think the rules come from? There is a difference between a fine, and a limit on compensation. And contrary to your argument that you are not limiting compensation, you are.

Imprison, so you agree that we imprison people for certain types of payments? Good. Then extend to this.

Which is part of what I think is why people object to this. You are going to make it criminal to pay someone more than 100 times someone else in the company, even if it is warranted and deserved.

It does because the economy of scale sets in. It gets too expensive to pay everyone else just to pay one. I know you are against big companies, but not all big companies are evil.

I'm not against big companies. They may be a casualty of this law, but I don't see that they have to be or that that would necessarily be a bad thing. And it isn't too expensive to pay everyone else to just pay one. It is too expensive to pay one too much.

Which is part of what I think is why people object to this. You are going to make it criminal to pay someone more than 100 times someone else in the company, even if it is warranted and deserved.

Nope, not criminal. They wouldn't go to jail, just pay fines making up the difference.
And I can't think of any way it would be warranted and deserved. That's part of the point of the law.

Okay, I am trying to understand the penalty here. Let's say we have our minimum wage/1.5 million dollar spread company. And the company decides to pay the CEO an extra $500,000 ($2,000,000/year) without paying the lower level people. What happens?

The payee is fined $500,000 and the company is fined an amount either tied to earnings or the employee's fine.

And yet this is capitalism unleashed......

Capitalism: An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Unleahed: turned loose or freed from restraint

As I said, Unleashed from distorions created by gaming the system. Like cleaning clogs from your fuel line will unleash the power of your car's engine.

I'd argue that my system better fits the definition of Capitalism you posted than what we have now. Besides, nowhere in your definition is compensation mentioned.

I am not saying the current situation is perfect, just that yours is definitely not capitalism unleashed. :)

Free Market: An economic market in which supply and demand are not regulated or are regulated with only minor restrictions.

Well, we've seen that the Free Market doesn't work then. So why keep it?

So then you DON'T want capitalism.....

"Pure" capitalism? No. It doesn't work. Well regulated capitalism? Sure.

But restricting salaries isn't capitalism, it is closer to socialism. You can argue socialism is better, but don't try to make it sound like you are arguing for capitalism. :)

Giving people the freedom to make 100 times a co-worker? That's capitalism. It has no relationship to socialism.

Would you say beer isn't alcohol? You don't want to drink 100% alcohol, it'll kill you. Capitalism is the same way, the proper amount of regulation makes it a delicious beer that can be good for you if consumed in moderation.

Oh, now that made me laugh out loud, good job. :)

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we have that freedom already? Saying we will have the "freedom" to make 100 times the salary of a co-worker is like saying a dog on a leash has the "freedom" to run freely, within the confines of the leash.

I would definitely say beer isn't alcohol, it is a beverage containing alcohol. And socialism does not "contain" capitalism, it is something different, and saying it is the same is like saying that the bottle of vinegar you now have is the same as the bottle of wine you started with. It just leaves a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths, though others enjoy the vinegar. It is a love it or hate it situation.

I'm not saying this is socialism. If something isn't pure capitalism, it doesn't mean that it is socialist.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we have that freedom already?

We do, so why are you complaining? Though in reality, we don't have that freedom. While you technically have that freedom you'll never be able to take advantage of it. You have the same freedom to do that today as you do to take a 1 man sub into the Marianis Trench. What you're actually being granted here is the freedom to make a much larger % of the profits your labor generates for your company.

Just because a freedom is not used frequently or my many, does not make it okay to remove that freedom.

You don't have the freedom to do a large number of societally damaging things, this'll just be added to the list.

Whatever is justified by the profitability of the company.

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How is that different from today?

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And again, you're arguing over the fate of a few hundred people who will still be making millions of

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We tax, we regulate, we fine, we imprison

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Nope, not criminal. They wouldn't go to jail, just pay fines making up the difference.

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The payee is fined $500,000 and the company is fined an amount either tied to earnings or the employ

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I'd argue that my system better fits the definition of Capitalism you posted than what we have now.

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Well, we've seen that the Free Market doesn't work then. So why keep it?

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"Pure" capitalism? No. It doesn't work. Well regulated capitalism? Sure.

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Giving people the freedom to make 100 times a co-worker?

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While you technically have that freedom you'll never be able to take advantage of it.

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